Waste of time or a useful tool used across Europe? 🪪

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Re: Weekly Poll: Would you resist government plans for mandatory digital ID cards?

I would support an ID card scheme if it didn't end up being run by US spy-tech firm Palantir or needed for grocery shopping etc because it should have nothing to do with oligarchy/autocracy, and as we're out of the EU umbrella and rules, we in the UK are vulnerable to rogue actors. –Steve

I may be naive, but I'm at a loss: how will digital ID stop human traffickers from putting people in perilous conditions and profiting off their attempted escape from conflict? It would appear that all Keir Starmer is doing with this plan [which he says will tackle irregular immigration by curbing illegal working] is playing into the hands of hateful and divisive politics as spouted by Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson, Donald Trump etc al. –Nicola Griffiths

I'm an immigrant (NZer who married a Brit and moved to the UK 25yrs ago) and as far as I'm aware, all non-citizens are already required to produce evidence of the right to work or the right to rent. In my case, this is a British Residency Permit. 

Why is the government simply not enforcing this properly, instead of bringing in this expensive new ID nonsense? –Deb

I am unsure whether ID cards would have the deterrent effect on illegal immigrants for which they are being mooted, but I fear their use for other purposes of controlling the population would quickly spread. This, on the whole, would push me to resist them until their use in other countries has been sufficiently studied. –Jane

I would naturally resist the imposition of more technology into my life, but I can see that there could be advantages, such as being a way to have personal details handy in one place when accessing state services or utilities. However, my main beef with this idea is that the rationale for it is such a very narrow focus, a sledgehammer to crack a nut, a tool merely for catching asylum seekers finding work in the black economy. It would be simpler to allow asylum seekers to work in the first place. When I first started helping asylum seekers voluntarily in 2000, they were allowed to find work six months after arriving in the country and registering for asylum. –Richard Hargreaves 

I'm not against the idea of digital ID cards, I just think they are a completely unnecessary expense for the following reasons:

We already have National Insurance numbers, which the government issues to a person when they begin their working life, NHS numbers (in England and Wales, with similar unique patient IDs also issued in the Northern Irish and Scottish health systems), and (potentially, if a person applies for them) driving licence and passport numbers. It's cheaper, easier and more efficient to use what we've already got. Why duplicate the existing system?

Wouldn't it make more sense to issue migrants with provisional NI numbers and thus allow them to work and contribute to the economy, while also being able to keep tabs on where they are, and then rescind the numbers if they lose their application to remain in the UK? Again, it's cheaper, easier and stops the haters from complaining that migrants get everything for free.

Digital ID cards will also involve more red tape, take too long to organise, and take up valuable resources and staff to implement. Final thought, surely the government has far more pressing issues to deal with to get the country back on its feet? Just my thoughts, seems like common sense. –P Brewis

 

FOLLOWING THE FLOTILLA

• Israeli forces boarded the Marinette, a Polish-flagged vessel with six crew members, on Friday morning, about 42.5 nautical miles from Gaza.
• The flotilla, made up of at least 44 civilian boats carrying around 500 activists, was first intercepted late on Wednesday.
• Most of the boats were boarded then, with volunteers detained and taken to Israel.
• Israel says it has so far deported four Italian activists who were on board the flotilla and is preparing to deport the rest.
• Israel has enforced a blockade on Gaza since 2007, which was severely tightened in 2023 to strictly control the entry of food, goods and aid.

I would not resist a mandatory digital ID card. It is normal in Europe. I am concerned about whether the Labour Party can introduce it successfully. I would support a voluntary scheme to start with. I think that if people find it convenient and if it is managed competently then it will be accepted by everyone. –Simon Holledge

Members of the government and supportive political pundits keep referring to Estonia as an example of how a digital ID system can work. As it happens, I worked in Tallinn for five years, and the key thing that I'm not seeing in the UK proposals is the transparency that's built into the Estonian model.

Estonians can log in online and see which authorities have been looking at or using their personal data, which is both a powerful freedom post-communism and a practical deterrent (i.e. if you can see an authority is looking at your data, you're more likely to conform – a bit like speeding cameras). Before I support digital ID in the UK, I want to see proper safeguards in place, to promote transparency so that we don't end up in a surveillance society with no controls other than those exercised by faceless government officers and politicians (e.g. who goes where, who accesses services etc), and protect our data from theft and abuse. –Nick

As someone who has lived and worked in Italy for much of the past decade, I have got used to carrying ID – and rejoiced in the ease with which my carta di soggiorno gets me through immigration on my frequent trips to the EU. So, I don't respond with a knee-jerk 'No' to the proposal to introduce ID cards to the UK. I do, however, have serious reservations about the kind of digital ID proposed by the PM in his speech. This seems in my view likely to produce the same unwanted consequences that were summarised yesterday by a friend on Facebook:

"So in theory making every single person hold a digital ID card will… stop illegal workers? So, if Mr Kebab Shop Owner pays someone he already knows is Mr Illegal Worker £20 in cash to work for a day, no contract, a digital ID card will stop… what? 

"And what about some very elderly people, or people with a learning disability etc, who don't have a smartphone? And if your phone runs out of charge, what do you do? And if someone steals your phone?

"Who gets all this data about you; everything you buy, everything you do, everywhere you go? What happens when it gets hacked, which with modern hackers should take a matter of weeks...? Who put this in their manifesto, and who voted for it?"

Given the way in which Vladimir Putin has been, quite literally, testing the waters around the UK with his super-surveillance ship Yantar (as detailed in a recent Financial Times report, 'The Russian spy ship stalking Europe's subsea cables'), it could open a whole new dimension to Russian interference in the life of the UK. –Tony Dickinson

Many of the Windrush generation lost their jobs because they couldn't prove their immigration status. I can just imagine people losing jobs because their digital ID either hasn't been processed in time or because of some lack of documentation or unexpected irregularity. Also, if all one has to do is show someone their ID on their phone, surely it would be incredibly easy to fake. –John

I live in Denmark, but am Scottish by birth and ancestry. In Denmark, all residents and citizens have an ID card, but they also nearly all trust their governments, which are elected by proportional representation, which also forces them into coalitions and dialogue. Danes and residents also trust the banks. There is one huge benefit in that all data for healthcare, etc, can be shared between patients and public health professionals, and in other important areas like driver's licenses, online banking, and commerce.

In short, it works well in the Nordic countries, under their political systems. It will not work in the UK or the US, because the political conditions are not right for it. Moreover, a Westminster government has no right to impose a 'Britcard' on the devolved nations. If Scots, for example, want an ID card, they would call it a Scotcard, or similar. They might do so if they trust their devolved government or when they become independent from Westminster. –John

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